New year's thoughts

[brightlywoven]

A very pleasant Christmas and New Year's break has been had by us. Not much in the way of excitement (I tell myself this is because I am Studying, but I am not as productive as I could be), but we had a lovely 4 day break in Brighton with family. I was pleasantly surprised by how speedy our drive was - 2 hours each way being about half the time I'd mentally allowed.

In the spirit of new yeardom, I decided to seriously examine an issue I'd not yet got to grips with. Recently I joked that I was concerned some of exactlyhalf's philosophy friends might 'turn him vegetarian.' I have always had mixed opinions on the subject of meat eating, so I thought it would be a good time to get to the bottom of some facts and decide if these should change what I do.


To clarify, we (I say we because half and I do generally come to ageement on almost everything) have no problem with killing and eating animals per se. We very rarely cook meat at home, but the reasons have largely been economic. Broadly speaking, we see a couple of possible reasons for not eating meat (apart from self-interested ones such as health or economic)
- environmental harm done by farming
- pain and/or loss of enjoyment for animals.
- global equality and poverty (eg does growing grain for animals instead of humans result in starvation

Being consequentialists, means this middle one is difficult to calculate. It depends on whether the animals would otherwise have any life (eg those bred only for farming who would have no 'life in the wild' if we didn't breed them to eat. If not, then the question is whether their life as a farmed animal is worth living before death. If farmed cattle (for example) enjoy their lives, and everyone stops eating beef, then the cessation of farming would, I think, be a net loss for the cattle. If however, it's a question of the animal living in the wild until it's killed for food, it becomes a question of how much the animal loses by having it's life ended early. If it is part of a resource limited population without other predators (eg kangaroos in Australia or the deer on Magdalen Grove), then the good gained by using the animal for food seems to come at only a small harm, compared to hunting animals whose numbers are threatened.

So in an effort to decide which animals can be ethically eaten, I've been reading today about farming practices from a selection of both highly emotive and more balanced sites. We then discussed it at length during a New Year's Day constitutional to Wolvercote, and the following seems to be the case (in the UK. In the US, you'd probably be best to avoid any meat farmed in America!)

Chickens - factory farmed chickens seem to have miserable lives, so they are off the list. As are battery farmed eggs. Free range chickens though, seem to have happy little lives until slaughter (which is only a very small part of their lives, and would seem to be ethically OK.

Pigs - also have miserable lives in factory farming. I'm not aware of any free range pig farming, so it would seem to be bye bye to sausages and bacon (small sob).

Ducks - ducks in sheds may have lives worth living. I need a bit more information on this one.

Cattle - surprisingly good! Only 15% of beef in England is 'intensively' farmed. The rest enjoy sunshine, grassy goodness and the company of their mums for at least 6 months. Again, in the UK, they largely eat grass, rather than grain, which is also good. Non-intensively farmed British beef may well be OK.

Sheep - again, happy lives!

Fish -There is an issue with farmed salmon being fed fish that are caught but not eaten by humans, but other than that farmed fish seem to have lives worth living.

We're currently mulling the possibilities, but we are thinking of this year restricting ourselves to 'ethical animal eating'. This would mean not eating
- factory farmed chickens
- pig products
- beef from outside the UK

probably not eating
- ducks

probably eating
- lamb
- british beef
- responsibly farmed fish
- shellfish
- free range chicken


Any facts/opinions about these would be good to hear.

And a happy new year to all.

Comments

[elleblue.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure about eating-chicken, but as far as egg-laying chickens go, there used to be (and probably still are) complicated definitions of what labels like "free range" technically mean -- I believe some of them are not a lot better than battery farming.

Is there still a market sometimes in Gloucester Green where local farmers sell meat? You might be able to ask the farmers/vendors there about the specific conditions on their farms if you're looking for happier ducks/pigs.

On the duck front, I read an article a while back about how duck farming is probably the most cruel of all poultry farming in the UK because barn-farmed ducks generally have no access to water in which to splash or swim, which is very distressing to an animal that evolved to live on water. It was an animal-rights-ish article (possibly from PETA or something similar), but even accounting for the huge bias, it sounded plausible (to me), though I guess they may only have been presenting facts from the worst examples of such practices.

[dr-biscuit.livejournal.com]

There is indeed a farmer's market, but it's not very amenable to working people, as it's only during the day on a weekday. (Don't get me started on home many institutions seem to expect working people to have a housewife.)

I read the PETA site, and they did indeed have that to say about ducks. Overall I found their site somewhat unhelpful (many of the practices they say 'are common in farming' have been outlawed in the UK for over 15 years!), and they tended to mix a lot of emotive language with what facts they did have. The problem is that they make it difficult to discern what is 'something we heard from someone working on a farm' and what is actual practice.

In the UK, the definite of free range is very specific about the amount of time they have access to runs and density in housing, and set by DEFRA there's a link here
http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodrin/poultry/faq/marketing.htm

[elleblue.livejournal.com]

Farmer's market: I very nearly added "or send exactlyhalf" ;-)

Peta: Their propaganda was one of the reasons I stopped being a member of the vegan society.. one of the main things that annoys me about it is that it's so badly done and thinly dressed-up a lot of the time, and it seems that the vegan society takes it for granted that we're all staunch Peta supporters who want to distribute its pamphlets to all our friends. Grr.

Chickens: Thanks for the link! I'm probably thinking of the "barn"/"free range" distinction, though there do seem to be a few more nuances mentioned further down the page. Either they used to make barn eggs sound like something from a traditional farm-yard rather than bird-dense sheds, or I was a lot younger and more naive when I first encountered it, imagined something much more like my grandparents' old barn and chickens, all and felt all duped when I eventually read more :-P

Also, Merry '08! (Sorry I forgot about that bit in the first comment!)

[dr-biscuit.livejournal.com]

The PETA stuff is difficult - obviously they feel strongly and are out to evangelecise to an extent. Their style of argument may help them do that. Unfortunately the stuff I read was very much sacrificing a cogent or consistent argument in favour of being shocking. However I thought the UK vegsoc were much more helpful.

The chicken barn/free range etc, is probably something in flux - the whole area seems to be increasingly regulated. (In the UK. In the US it's much more of a nightmare).

Merry 08 to you too - sorry we didn't make it on Monday. I've been trying to be a virtuous studier, with varying degrees of success. After an 8 hour trip to London to get a UK driving licence, we opted for a night in. Sounds like you had a good night though!

[dr-biscuit.livejournal.com]

Oh - and how insulting is it that I need *Psmela Anderson* to tell me about ethica living!

[shanith.livejournal.com]

An interesting debate, and one I shall consider a little on before replying! Maybe its a thing to discuss in person - as someone who's thought a little about this, it would be interesting to discuss with someone who is a bit more informed!

All the best for the New Year :-)
x

[dr-biscuit.livejournal.com]

We can chat over celery ;) When do you return to Oxon-land?

[shanith.livejournal.com]

Upon the Sunday! I shall hold you to the celery ;-)

[dr-biscuit.livejournal.com]

Sounds like you plan to impale me on it ;)
Also, there is a Serenity viewing in our near(ish) future - just 18 days till my exam is over.

(Though I must admit we *have* been watching things - half and I are working our way through the mighty BBC Pride & Prejudice - I haven't seen it in years and it is *so* good. Also very enjoyable to watch it with someone who can't remember the storyline. I, on the other hand, seem to know half the lines!)

Also, have you been informed of foreverdirt's return to Oxford this weekend and early next week?

[shanith.livejournal.com]

Well I can try and impale you if you like, but methinks it'll be pretty hard work!

Can't believe its only 18 days, I thought it was still ages and ages off. Hope the ol' studying is going well, although knowing your dedication I don't need to even enquire ;-)

I didn't know about Foreverdirt - are there special plns afoot?

Thank you very very much for the cd btw! It was amazing to see us all on screen - the twinkles thought I was very embarassing!

I haven't seen the BBC P and P for a while, but my favourite BBC drama is jointly the new Jane Eyre and North and South - both of which are excellent! I have the Jane Eyre on video as another post zam treat should you want it!

[the-marquis.livejournal.com]

I think the veggie society has some info on the 'free-range' labelling of eggs and such (there are varying conditions including barn eggs which are almost factory-ish depending on the farm so dodgy), but I buy free range because I trust the labelling - mind you half the time our eggs come form waitrose and are part of some sort of rare breed survival programme (wierd when you think about it but ...). So it's also worth checking what the shop's ethical policy is (eg Co-Op) and what labelling they use.

As for pigs, intensivity can vary, there was a large pig farm Na'Lon and I walked through whilst trying to walk up the river to Islip years back. there each sow and litter had a ten foot fenced patch with feed & water troughs and a corrugated arch for shelter; twas very muddy too.

[sally_maria]

I'm sure I've seen similar pig farms to the_marquis - maybe when I was on holiday in Kent? I don't know how you go about finding what conditions pigs were kept in though, I don't think there is anything as obvious as the free-range eggs marking.

[dr-biscuit.livejournal.com]

exactlyhalf is on the trail of this - but it does appear there is a definite 'free range' equivalent of piggy-wigs. I think a likely upshot of all this is that we stop eating many restaurant meats, since the sourcing is so difficult. It certainly looks like the end of eggs and bacon at brunch. Oh, sorry, my mistake. There is no brunch in Oxford. Sigh.

[shanith.livejournal.com]

There was brunch at Hilda's on Saturdays!

[dr-biscuit.livejournal.com]

Yes, but I mean *brunch* as an almost midday meal, at which a variety glorious breakfast foods are consumed freshly prepared (absolutely *no* bain-maries) at leisurely pace by relaxed individuals. Not infrequently this is accompanied by the consumption of more than one life-restoring coffee (which is not burnt, and moreover which has had nought to do with some plastic pod being placed in a machine). Crosswords are optional. The entire experience is one of almost luxuriance, yet the cost is generally about £5.

That, my friend, is brunch. And when I am next in Melbourne, I plan to brunch at least thrice a week. Outdoors.

[dr-biscuit.livejournal.com]

PS is this icon your most 'meat' relevant? ;)

[sally_maria]

:-)

Probably (it picks random ones, but I do change them if I can think of something more relevant), though perhaps I ought to use this one when talking about healthy eating. :-)

[cealdis.livejournal.com]

Have only just returned from internet-less, and I type hurriedly to save you from (what I consider) a slightly less happy life due to slight lack of information.

Free range pig products were (I believe, having hunted so very long for them quite a while ago) some of the first free range meat products to be easily available in supermarkets, and from what I've seen still are.

I agree with everything said about ducks, but do make sure to check Sainsbury's regularly as their free-range Gressingham ducks are often half-price (incidentally, those have been the ones I've been cooking).

Free range chicken has now become as easy to get as pork.

Of course, you mention economics, and all of this will cost you more. Duchy Originals stuff will also be pretty good and may be easier to get hold of in some supermarkets. Duchy Originals also support rare breeds, which is generally good. Another place to get free-range things are some of the butchers in the Covered Market (they're open on Saturdays so not as bad for working people as the other markets).

Anyway, good luck with this. Try not to turn too vegetarian!

[dr-biscuit.livejournal.com]

I thought you might be alarmed! Good to hear duck and pig (in some forms) could be back. And that that magnificent duck was happy before his glorious end ;)

It's quite impressive to see how much better the UK (or at least some of the) industry does this. It would seem to be largely due to a) people creating pressure and b) a government that's prepared to regulate industry.

I'm a bit worried about the fish though. (I really like fish). It will be amusing if our brand of animal friendly eating says (some?) beef and pork are OK, but fish isn't!

An update

[exactlyhalf.livejournal.com]

We are still working on this, and I've almost finished my second full day of fact finding and looking at awful pictures/videos of various farming practices. It turns out that farmed fish might be out after all (we shall see) and that ducks and pigs may well end up back on the menu. We'll post again when we've come up with a considered plan (probably within a week).

Re: An update

[shanith.livejournal.com]

I shall look forward to it! Particularly any analysis on how much pork is free range - there are lots and lots of pig arcs in the hills around Wallingford, and i frequently see them on the train, so I perhaps naively assumed that if not the majority, approaching the majority of pigs were 'free-range'.